Valérie Mannaerts, Paul Robbrecht and Samuel Saelemakers in conversation

On collaboration and the dialogue between art and architecture in public spaces

Valérie Mannaerts, Paul Robbrecht and Samuel Saelemakers in conversation

Samuel Saelemakers: “Hello Valérie and Paul, it’s great that we can meet for this conversation in the context of Valérie’s solo exhibition ‘Antennae’ at M Leuven. Paul (Robbrecht en Daem architecten) and I have both worked individually with Valérie on various projects in the public space. During this conversation, we’ll shed some light on those collaborations. Paul, Valérie, how did your first collaboration come about?”

Paul Robbrecht: “Our first meeting was like an arranged marriage (laughs). We were paired as an architectural studio and an artist for a landscape project along the N16 (2012-2013), and shortly afterwards we collaborated on Bozar’s Café Victor. Part of the café needed to be screened off, for example during royal visits. Valérie designed a hand-embroidered curtain. It’s a fantastic piece and well worth examining in detail. Our firm mapped out the architectural space – with vistas and mirrors –and she devised the perfect solution.”

Valérie Mannaerts: “After ‘Pleasure in Making’ at Bozar, I assembled my own team for the first time, which even included my mother – which was amazing. That production also marked the beginning of a valuable and enduring collaboration with the architect and textile designer, Ester Goris. What is striking about your working method, Paul, is that, as an architect, you leave so much space for the artist’s voice and visual language. For ‘Private Architecture (BeursBourse)’, the floor of the central hall (of the Brussels Stock Exchange ) was designated as a workspace from the outset. This gave me, as a woman, a prominent position within both the project and the design of the public space.”

Paul: “The project (in collaboration with Popoff architectes and BEAU) needed a floor, after all. Such a functional requirement leaves room for an artist to be creative.”

Valérie: “For me, the unique challenge lay precisely in uniting architecture and art in an artwork that is also a functional object. Conceptually, it introduced a historical dimension: the floors in Roman villas are early examples of pictoriality in architecture. That link between art history and architecture, and the opportunity to apply a classical technique such as mosaic, held great appeal. It provided a solid foundation for decisions regarding craft, interpretation and the creative process.”

Samuel: “Valérie, our first collaboration began in 2023 with an invitation to create a new work for the ‘Kunst in de Stad’ [Art in the City] collection, Antwerp’s public art collection. You then created ‘Private Architecture (joyfully wet)’ (2024) for Bouckenborgh Park in Merksem.”

Valérie: “It was a wonderful opportunity to create a new feature in that kind of setting, whose symmetry and vegetation were very appealing. The bronze sculpture serves as a focal point in the park and rises like an organic element from the former water basin, where another sculpture once stood – meaning the site was calling out for a new addition.”

Samuel: “The obvious yet fundamental difference between an artwork created freely in the studio and one made for the public space is that the latter arises from an external demand, rather than from an internal impulse. How do you perceive the difference between those two starting points?”

Valérie: “I’ve developed a personal visual language that allows me to take risks quickly in the studio. When working on commissions, I draw on that same vocabulary in a different way, interweaving it with careful listening to the shared space. Navigating that path is a fascinating exercise in arriving at a whole that is both rooted in my artistic journey and offers a broad field of associations for the audience.”

Samuel: “Does the audience’s anticipation play a major role when you’re thinking about site-responsive work?”

Valérie: “My conception of the audience encompasses both the present and the future; both are active partners in the creative process. I ask myself: what kind of artwork can remain connected to both the audience and the location fifty years from now? After all, time is experienced differently in public spaces. That is precisely why time and the audience are integral to every aspect of my creative process.”

Samuel: “When we talk about time and space, we return to architecture. Paul, you’ve already worked with a great many artists on various architectural projects. What role does the firm play in such collaborations?”

Paul: “Designing public spaces and buildings is a working process in which the question of art quickly arises. At Robbrecht en Daem architecten , we usually choose the artists we work with ourselves. Within architecture, art plays an essential role as a critical presence: an idea that relates, on the one hand, to the architect and artist during the process, and on the other, to the public, who will ultimately move through those spaces. That relationship between space, art and people culminates in the question: what happens here? Valérie’s work in the Beurs reminds me of Mozart’s music – elegant, yet possessing a complexity and depth that can still jar. I’m cautious about terms such as Gesamtkunstwerk; for me, it is primarily about dialogue.”

Samuel: “I avoid the term ‘art integration’ for the same reason; it also carries a somewhat unpleasant political undertone. Art doesn’t need to integrate; above all, it must be able to be itself, even in the context of a public commission. All three of us have experienced that tension in our own practices. How do you approach the task of responding to a specific location?”

Valérie: “As a Brussels native, I felt a strong sense of responsibility towards the Beurs project; the steps of the building were so important to me during my childhood. What helped me was drawing up the specifications with Françoise Lombaers – a remarkable craftswoman who taught me about mosaics and terrazzo . For a public tender, everything has to be elaborated in technical detail. This document became my guide for discussions with contractors and craftspeople. Because it was so specific, only specialist tradespeople could bid – no cowboys. A public artwork is created through dialogue with many partners; that collaboration ultimately determines whether it succeeds.”

Samuel: “Scale, materials and technical considerations are very different, yet decisive factors in public art commissions. I’m thinking of your piece in Merksem, where you worked with bronze. As Paul says, the work must relate to the whole, but as an artist you must also retain your freedom. Are material and scale – such as bronze in Antwerp or marble and terrazzo in the Stock Exchange – ways to play with these elements, or rather challenges?”

Valérie: “This kind of project is also a physical challenge, but it’s mainly about the process, which begins with finding the right partners. As with Françoise Lombaers, and with you, Samuel and Paul – it forms the basis for an open, constructive dialogue in which trust and freedom are respected. This creates a working atmosphere where you seek solutions together and can grow without conflict. It’s a way of working that has strongly influenced my practice, deepening it in terms of materiality and attention to detail, and enhancing the pleasure of working on projects.”

Samuel: “At Kunst in de Stad, we encourage artists to work with sustainable materials. As collection managers, this is vital if we want to avoid creating problematic installations and instead contribute something lasting to the positive experience of public space. Does the material and technical sustainability of public artworks influence your thinking about the success of a project?”

Paul: “In public spaces, the work must be extremely durable – something that’s often underestimated. Ideally, a building should last forever. At our firm, we commit to ensuring that our buildings will stand for a hundred years.”

Samuel: “The timeframe we speak of at Kunst in de Stad is ‘for future generations’; we don’t dare explicitly claim eternity for artworks (laughs). But our commitment can feel eternal. What is it like for you to hand over such an artwork, to let it go, so to speak? Making art is often a personal process. Personally, I always find it strange to unveil a work in a square, a park or a street. The last glass is drunk; the ceremony is over… and you return home while the artwork remains behind.”

Paul: “What’s striking is the process by which the public gradually comes to embrace the work. Buildings such as the Stadshal in Ghent (in collaboration with Marie-José Van Hee architecten ) and Rubensplein in Knokke, featuring sculptures by Franz West, were heavily contested during their construction but have since been embraced as social spaces. In urban settings, novelty is often met with apprehension, but it is usually eventually accepted. Good art begins on a personal level, but the process allows it to take on a public life and, to some extent, become part of the public consciousness.”

Samuel: “I would even go so far as to say that the less an artwork is geared towards immediate public appreciation, the greater that appreciation can become in the long term. When art is too emphatically integrated, there’s a risk that it stops being perceived as art-and is therefore no longer appreciated as such.”

Valérie: “I always try to pour my heart and soul into a work, so that it is strong enough to stand on its own. It’s part of an artist’s responsibility. Once the work is powerful enough, it can enter into a dialogue with its surroundings. It’s a mutual trust between me, the work and the place where it exists.”

Samuel: “That’s a wonderful way to conclude. A powerful work is sent out into the world, like a young adult, to find its own way – and it typically manages just fine. We see the same thing with works in the Antwerp collection: give it time, let the artwork and the public get to know one another. It requires trust, but also a thorough process, so that the work can eventually begin to speak for itself.”

Recorded by Febe Lamiroy